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Veterans Affairs, A Model for the Rest Of Us?
Posted by Prof | Filed under What They're Not Telling You
I think it is safe to say that anyone who is paying attention has heard about the poor schmuck who essentially got mugged by police and VA officials for interviewing a minority patient at a VA hospital without permission.
Yes, because the VA demands a permission slip, kind of like the ones you had to have your mommy sign before you could go a school field trip in grammar school, for anyone to interview a vet under their care.
The good news is that this flagrant violation of the First Amendment has apparently been rectified. Three days later. And then only after the news organization who hired this stringer in the first place wrote a nasty-gram to the VA reminding them of the First Amendment and the fact that the U.S. Supreme court has somehow managed to not yet disallow it.
But this is only part of the story as I see it. In essence, the VA has decided that they are in loco parentis for their patients. Their claim during this incident is that a member of the media (and junior though he may be, he is still a member of the media) has to ask permission from the facility to do any sort of interview so the VA can “make every effort to protect the privacy of our patients.” The assumption there is that our country’s veterans are not capable of making their own adult decisions. Sure, these vets were adult enough to sign the dotted line. These vets were adult enough to be given training on the most sophisticated military hardware on planet Earth. These vets were adult enough to know that volunteering or accepting conscription meant that they were going to be asked to kill or die for our country and our Constitution. But they are apparently not adult enough to know how to talk to a reporter. They are apparently not adult enough to know that by speaking to a reporter that their words can be transmitted over airwaves or through cables and other people would hear or see their words. And the VA apparently thinks that our disabled vets are not even adult enough to know that their names might be attached to their words.
How bloody insulting can the VA actually be without, oh, I don’t know, accidentally infecting our vets with HIV or hepatitis.
I am a disabled veteran. (And, no, the nature of my injuries is not open for discussion.) I served in Desert Storm. I spent the last three years of my enlistment undergoing physical therapy and taking drugs that would get me arrested if not prescribed by a Navy doctor. I spent four years after being discharged under the care of the VA hospital in Birmingham, AL. I never saw the same VA doc twice in a row. It took months just to get a test scheduled, months more to get the results. I actually lost a job once because I told my boss if I don’t go to B’ham next week it would take four months to get another appointment, and he told me I couldn’t have the day off. During those four years, I was given experimental drugs by an intern who was doing a study and couldn’t get volunteers at a civilian hospital or a prison. I was given a pain drug that was a THC derivative so powerful that I couldn’t function through the hallucinations. The VA sent me powerful narcotics through the US mail that were stolen from my mailbox and not replaced. The VA required me to use private insurance or cash to pay for some of my drugs, but thankfully none of my treatments.
And I never got any better.
Not until I went cold turkey on my meds (with the resulting psychotic episode) and saved enough to go to a private doctor and pay her cash instead.
The VA had no agenda here. They weren’t deliberately trying to make my life miserable. They just didn’t care. They are trying to handle a gigantic mass of patients, some of whom cannot be fixed without surgery that they don’t have the budget to perform. They have to deal daily with patients who may not have finished high school, might be senile due to old age, could be drug addled or mind melted from illicit drugs or alcohol. So they are forced by neccessity to treat every single one of their patients the exact same way. They are forced to assume that anyone who comes through their doors is the lowest common denominator just to save themselves some precious time for the next 50 burned out old vets who come through the door today. We won’t even discuss the psychiatric problems some of these guys have and the dearth of programs to help. (Hint to the VA: sometimes the problem you are treating is not in the body, but in the mind. The extra ten seconds you spend with your patient might tell you that.)
And the VA has to have rules like this just to get through the day. They have to make sure that some of their more emotionally or psychically damaged patients are protected from the vultures who make up our American press corps. But it seems like a man who can get up and address a public forum is probably capable enough to make his own decisions regarding talking to a reproter after the town hall. It is simple math though; there is not enough time in the day to make rational and individual decisions regarding patients, so the VA, by default, has to stop anything that isn’t in their little rule book.
This is the face of goverment health care. This is the fate of us all with universal health care.
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April 11th, 2009
The “little rule book” is the bane of this once great nation. Reducing all actions to those which would fit the lowest common denominator has removed all judgement and thus responsiblility from any large agency which deals with people.
In Delaware, a nine year old girl was recently suspended
because she brought a cake knife to school. It was placed in the box by her grandma and the teacher used the knife to cut the girl’s birthday cake. Then the “discipline” began. The state requires the same reponse to all knives without exception. Everyone knew the girl had no ill intention and in fact didn’t even realize the knife was in the box. Now the state legislature is trying to pass a change in the law to allow some discretion.
The teacher and the principle in question are cowards. They puinished this child to protect themselves from the results of a bad law. There are examples of this everywhere in our lives. We are no longer free; we live under a tyranny of rules and petty potentates.
April 11th, 2009
I think people who think the fed.gov should run health care are people who have never been under the care of a fed.gov facility. They don’t get it, they think that either it will be like Emergency Rooms are now, where you get quality care, the ED begs the fed.gov for reimbursement, and the fed.gov pays them a pittance (of course they don’t know or don’t care or think it’s OK about that last bit).
Or they think that it’ll be run like the Navy hospitals are, without realizing that if you abuse a military medical facility, you get severely punished. Or that in a military hospital, Doctors Orders are not just good ideas, they are ORDERS (as in the legal, you will be punished for disobeying an order if you do not obey, kind of orders).
April 11th, 2009
9 years and counting
I’ve been in VA facilities in 5 different regions and 4 states.
Even when my ‘phantom abdominal pain’ was dripping blood on the floor the doctor wouldn’t get off his butt to examine me.
I’ve seen ambulances drop patients at the bus stop because the VA wouldn’t accept them in ER.
I’ve seen patients dropped on the floor between surgery and recovery.
I’ve lost good jobs because each appointment takes the whole day.
I’ve woken up to find them pumping poison into my IV.
I’ve been left for dead at least twice.
I’ve been taken off of meds that worked to save money.
I’ve seen Vets denied treatment due to their advanced age.
I can go on and on.
April 11th, 2009
Anyone who thinks Uncle Sam should be responsible in any way for everyone’s health care should talk to a vet–or the family members of a vet–who has had to deal with the VA for his or her health care, or “benefits.”
I’ve had fellow retiree co-workers who damned near died waiting for their VA appointment for a serious medical condition. All the stories about Canadian and English health care, waiting six months? It happens here, too: At your local VA facility.
April 11th, 2009
I’m *technically* a disabled veteran, although the 10% doesn’t slow me down much. I gave up on the VA a long time ago, and I think the VA’s fate is the fate of any government organization. That’s not to suggest that the people are bad, most often they are not. But they are dealing with the fundamental difference between ANY government organization and ANY organization in the private sector:
There is no customer they *must* please in order to keep getting a paycheck.
No matter who you are or what you do in the private sector, the thing that defines it as “the private sector” is that ultimately your check depends on the willingness of customers to VOLUNTARILY give you money. Once that is changed, the “person who has to be pleased to remain in business” shifts from the customer to your own chain of command.
That’s why no matter how pure the motives, how valiant the efforts or how bottomless the purse, government programs will never do a given job as well as the private sector. Therefore the only functions government should be trusted with are those the private sector cannot accomplish AT ALL, functions where loyalty to chain of command rather than customer is the only thing that makes it possible.
April 12th, 2009
“they are dealing with the fundamental difference between ANY government organization and ANY organization in the private sector”
I would say any organization ‘with competition’ rather than ‘in the private sector’. Or maybe just count Big Business as part of the new government.
Big business has the same issue as the government. When the customer has no options the level of service and product quality drop rapidly.
where I live there is 1 telephone co., 1 electric co. 1 High speed ISP.. if the service/product stinks (and it does) there’s no option.
When all the small mom and pop stores are out of business we’ll be at the mercy of the big nationwide stores.
April 12th, 2009
Point taken, mulligan. Of course so far as I can tell, the majority of times there is no competition it’s because the government has stepped in and forbidden it, as in the case of most utilities.
We can see the same thing in the space program. Now I’m about as pro-space as it gets…. but I think space exploration is far too important to allow NASA to oversee it. What Dick Rhutan recently did should have happened 20 years ago.
April 12th, 2009
[...] VETERANS AFFAIRS: A model for the rest of us? [...]
April 12th, 2009
Prof:
Thank you for your service. I wish we could have rewarded you better.
April 12th, 2009
Lee, first of all, thanks.
Second, I am from a family that has served at sea since the 1600’s…I knew the risks, the price, and the rewards from a long oral tradition. I knew, KNEW, what I faced when I signed the line and took the Oath. And I did it anyway. Not for the college bill money, not for the snazzy dress uniform, and not even for the respect of my family or peers. I did it because it needed doing. I did it in the hopes that my eventual kids wouldn’t have to do it against the Russians or the mullahs or the drug lords or the Chinese. I helped our country bring down The Wall just by being in uniform. I helped punish a dictator who got a little too uppity towards his neighbors. I helped stem the tide of illicit drugs coming into our country from Central and South America. I did it because this country deserves people to stand up and put their bodies in front of the flag while others hide behind it. (That doesn’t mean that those who don’t are less than true and faithful Americans, just that their path to liberty is along a different road.)
You say that I should have been rewarded better, but you would be wrong. I already have the best reward possible: personal liberty and the knowledge of what that liberty costs. It is the lesson I teach my children, it is why I speak out when I see our government, at all levels, try to restrict liberty in small or large bites, and it is the freedom to do these things as I see fit.
I accept your thanks, but I already have my reward.
April 12th, 2009
I am a medically retired MMC (Machinist Mate Chief). I was discharged in 1994 with a 75% service connected disability resulting from a shipboard fire. My face, back and neck were badly burnt. I lost all the fingers on my right hand and half my palm. I also have permanent lung damage from toxic smoke inhalation.
The Navy spent over $2 million on my surgeries, rehab, medication and prostheses. I don’t know how much the VA has spent, but it’s got to be more than that. I go to the South Tucson VA now, but went to the Albuquerque VA for 11 years before I moved to Tucson.
With one exception, I have had a pretty good experience with every aspect of care, including the mail order pharmacy. The DVA, the VFW, American Legion, the Fleet Reserve and the RCPOA are standing by to help me when I need it, but in 14 and a half years, I can count on one hand (the only one I’ve got
) how many times I’ve had to call them for assistance in getting something from the VA.
I’m sorry you’ve had a bad experience. Generally, I’ve found the VA to be on a pretty steady path of improvement in most areas. I don’t like being seen by medical students any more (because they’re generally rude and don’t have any manners), and they usually respect that.
Bergamot OUT
April 12th, 2009
I’ve never served in the military (Rheumatoid Arthritis. Recruiter turned me down because of it). I’ve heard horror stories from the VA system and thought of a great alternative:
Go to an ACTUAL hospital. Send the Government the bill. Done.
But that just makes too much sense.
April 12th, 2009
Chief, I absolutely respect the job that the Navy and VA docs do, I hope you don’t misunderstand that. You know, when they are allowed to by the red tape brigade, the time clock, and the reams of regs that can bind the hands of the actual doctors.
The problem is that, yes, they can spend two million bucks on someone who has truly frightening injuries, such as yourself, in Albuquerque but still not be able to spend 25k on some kid in Alabama who needs surgery but isn’t bleeding out.
The VA cannot be run any more efficiently without vastly improving the way they treat their patients. One size does not fit all but they are forced by circumstances to act as if it will. They cannot treat the cause of pain or infirmity often times because some schedule says ‘first try X for Y years and hope the patient goes away before they get sick from the meds or develop into something that costs more money to treat.” I am a diabetic with liver problems now because the VA was more interested in ‘pain management’ than in treating the issue; and the long term hazards of a pain management regimen were ignored.
It is almost better to show up at the door with a sucking chest wound than it is to rely on the VA for any kind of chronic issue.
April 12th, 2009
Okay. I’ll start by saying I agree that any govenment provided health care is a bad idea because of a lack of competition and the generally poor performance of gov’t provided services. But this article and the comments are way out of the norm I have witnessed with the VA. First, anyone who was in Desert Storm, in the Navy and not a pilot, who was disabled by that 100+ hr war and says their disability is not open to debate sets off my BS alarm. This smacks of the “wannabes” who claimed to have served in Viet Nam but couldn’t provide any details as they were on “secret operations”. Then the Mulligans of the world who have had every conceivable injustice visited upon them by an ungrateful VA system join in the discussion to slam their favorite target.
That said, I recently began taking my 87 yr old father in law to the VA for his appointments. The clinic is state of the art, the medical personnel are clearly competent and the desire to provide quality service is evident. Within a week of being discharged from a civilian hospital my father in law had two appointments which I had scheduled for him. So those who say they must wait months either don’t understand and properly use the system or they are the constant complainers for whom no level of service is adequate as their problems are either mental or self inflicted.
Which brings me to the issue at hand. The veteran who complained to the young reporter alledged inadequate care and racial discrimination. Now if the local VA clinic is any type of a barometer, the latter claim is as bogus as the day is long. My take on this is that the reporter took advantage of the most vocal veteran who probably had issues which need the privacy protections of the health care system. This is a common tactic of VA patients and is used to discredit the facility you are seeking to force into giving you the service you seek rather than the service are entitled to or the service you need. One need only go to a VA facility, listen to the war stories being exchanged, and observe the 50% of clients who are clearly there to get their share of the so-called promised benefits from a less than gratefull government.
Having had my say I should clarify my background. I am a veteran. I served in Viet Nam from Oct ‘68 – Oct ‘69 in a US Army infantry rifle company. I am not qualified for VA medical assistance. I am also retired from the USAR with 31 years of total service (active and reserve) with 22 of those years as an AMEDD officer serving with numerous reservists who were civilian medical providers from physicians to nurses to administrators. Make no mistake, we have the finest military and the finest military medical personnel in the world.
GOD BLESS AMERICA!
PMS
April 12th, 2009
Bergamot, I wish I could claim the same kind of experiences. I was Army (E-5), even made it to my honorable (rather than a medical), but was seriously injured by an accident while active, one that has limited my mobility ever since and caused me continual pain every day.
Since then, in the 25+ years I have dealt with my local VA, I have received nothing but indifference, incompetence, inexplicable delays, lowballed diagnoses, gross violations of the VA’s own P&P, what have you.
I keep reminding my non-Veteran friends, if you believe “Socialized Medicine” is a good thing, one who’s time has come for the US, speak to someone like me. I already have experienced it wholesale, and it sucks.
April 12th, 2009
Except, of course, for Prof, who sets off your vaunted “BS alarm,” seeing as how he’s a “wannabe” and a human “Mulligan.”
Your argument is negated by your overwhelming rudeness.
April 12th, 2009
Paul S., please allow me to use you as a teaching tool.
Please note that I never said I was injured while in direct combat.
Please note that I never said my injuries were not open for discussion (not ‘debate’ as you said) due to being ‘classified.
Please note that the theme of the post was not even directly about the incident with the reporter, but rather the reaction of the VA to said incident and the corporate philosophy behind that reaction.
You, sir, have leaped to a conclusion based upon your own experience and/or biases, a flaw that most humans fall prey to at some time or another, without even bothering to stop and ask questions.
One final thing, please note that even though you cast left-handed aspersions upon me personally, I still approved your comment. I am not afraid, ever, of personal attacks because they usually spring from the keyboards of those who cannot be taught, carry a personal axe to grind, or simply refuse to listen to anything outside of their personal experience. If you are or are not any of the above, you still act as a teaching tool for others on how not act.
April 12th, 2009
Actually, Wyoh, while PMS’s military experiences are very credible, there are further obvious negations:
“I am not qualified for VA medical assistance.”
Thus you have no real personal experience with this system.
“I recently began taking my 87 yr old father in law to the VA for his appointments.”
Again, your experiences with the VA are recent, topical, and of limited duration.
That being said, yeah, I agree the claims of racial issues with the VA to be BS. Until very recently, I worked closely with homeless Veterans for many years, and never heard any hint of this from any Veteran, black/white/brown/yellow/red.
April 12th, 2009
[...] records of disabled veterans, and it is not something that I would wish on my worst enemy. Simon Jester has a description of his experiences, and they match the observations of what my claimants [...]
April 12th, 2009
In the interest of full disclosure, let me say that having lived a large part of my life in a country with government-run health care, I couldn’t agree with the sentiment of this post towards that disastrous idea any more than if I had written it myself.
@Paul S:”…and says their disability is not open to debate sets off my BS alarm…” Really????? See, you set off my complete-stupid-fuck alarm with that one. First of all: brush up on your reading skills. Prof said his disability isn’t open “for discussion”, which is completely within his right as a human being, let alone as a veteran. Surely you must realize that your recent experience at one VA hospital cannot possibly represent the service at all VA hospitals (now or in the past), just as the condition of one federal prison does not necessarily represent the conditions of them all. For you to believe otherwise is naive at best. So thank you for your service to the military. I encourage you to reevaluate some of your ideas on the subject presented in this post.
@Prof: Thank you for your service. And while you so eloquently stated you have already received your award, I too wish that you had been rewarded better for your sacrifice. It is most certainly not one that can ever be sufficiently repaid.
April 13th, 2009
[...] The VA gives you AIDS. [...]
April 13th, 2009
I am a non-combat veteran (US Army 1957-59; 1960-61). I have been fortunate to have had excellent treatment at two different VAMC facilities in two different states (Louisiana and Texas) over an extended period of time (1991 to current). The personnel at both of these facilities have treated me with utmost respect and due diligence.
I agree that I could possibly have been a victim of experimental drugs at one time but I would probably have consented if asked. At the Louisiana VAMC all of my doctors and nurses were veterans (meaning they had all been at the facility for more years than I had been there for treatment); while at the Texas VAMC {in Houston) I have been exposed to some medical students; but, they are supervised so I have not had any mistreatment at their hands – nor any disrespect.
I have seldom had to wait to see a doctor, in fact, on more than one ocassion I have been in and out of the facility before my scheduled appointment time. If I have any major complaint about the facilities (both states) it is that they do not have adequate parking facilities. I have, more than once, had to miss my scheduled appointment because I could not find a place to park.
I have heard many war stories about the difficulty in getting appointments scheduled, long waits, improper care, etc. For those persons I am truly sorry. I, for one, have had excellent care and treatment.
I am not, however, of the opinion that Universal Health Care is the answer. I have been unfortunate in having to accompany my wife for treatment at a “charity” medical facility in the Houston area and that is the pits. We were in the 50/50 category – not total charity, but uninsured – wherein I paid half; the state/county paid half.
Papasnake
April 13th, 2009
[...] I Am Simon Jester, “prof” who is a disabled vet, describes his “free” VA healthcare: The VA had no agenda here. They weren’t deliberately trying to make my life miserable. [...]
April 13th, 2009
I work at the VA in Birmingham and YOU guys are such liars. No student or resident gives experimental treatments without patient informed consent. I challenge the author to be specific in your charge of what you were given, for what and when and I bet you cant. I supervise the residents and med students in the clinics and inpatient areas and no drugs are even given in the clinics. Furthermore, for any of you guys, if care is so bad….leave. Go elsewhere. I cant stand seeing patients like you with such a chip on your shoulder. I thank you for your service and am greatful that I get the chance to serve you guys. But get over it. You volunteered for Desert Storm. You werent drafted. So go elsewhere. Dont infect the VA with your dribble.
Are there problems in the VA? of course. Are there problems at private hospitals? Of course. You dont hear about them because they arent as news worth. I could practice anywhere I desire. I, like many of my colleagues who came from the university hospital across the street, have impressive credentials. WE choose to be at the VA for a variety of reasons, one of which is service to our fighting men and women.
The VA has every class of drug available on the market. Do we supply the most expensive one when cheaper, equivalent ones are available…no! and a private doc shouldnt either.
Does it take longer to get some routine tests done? Yes, but not if they are emergently needed. Do we have some docs I wouldnt want to go to? Yes but so does every single hospital in the US.
I challenge all of you to objectively look at the care given or vets and not the crap that gets published in the media. Then look at your local private hospital and see what really happens there. I think you will be surprised
April 13th, 2009
Doctor S:
I am a former Biomedical Engineer, and worked at some of the top teaching hospitals in the world (does maintaining the ER at the Brigham and Women’s sound less-than-competent?); I have something of a clue about quality healthcare versus substandard care. I have also utilized the VA for my service-connected healthcare issues for 25 years. I DO know the difference, and my experiences between the standards of care at the two are glaring.
I have literally had VA physicians provide me with a letter for my employer post severe knee issues such that I could NOT WALK for eight days. The letter stated I was seen for “knee pain.”
I have been rated with “mild osteoarthritis” of the knee only recently, despite having a detached and quite large bone-spur under the medial side of the knee, which was documented TEN YEARS AGO (indicating degenerative osteoarthritis as an active process a decade ago or more). My knee is now grossly misshapen, and these changes have been documented over the years and then ignored.
My medical records inexplicably disappear. Records requests disappear and the very person who I hand-submitted the request to says, “what do you want me to do about it? (yawn)”
My degrees of flexion and extension of the knee have been eyeballed for over twenty years, despite clear policy directives by the VA as to the use of a Goniometer. I have had the VA deny claims for increases in rating for “failure to attend a scheduled C&P examination,” which I had rescheduled and had the letters from the VA to prove same; I was denied nevertheless. I was again then denied for a “failure to provide requested documentation,” letter sent to an address I did not live at and had not for over a decade; the VA again agreed the denial was “fair,” despite their glaring error.
These are only the tip of the iceberg of my personal experiences at the VA.
No offense, Doctor, but perhaps the standard of care at the VAMC you work at is quite different from mine. My experiences however are simply chock-full of incompetence, indifference, obfuscation, delays, denials, and outright lies.
Sorry for the angry screed, but as Omar Bradley once said to General Montgomery’s Chief of Staff, Sir Frederick DeGuingand, “I trust you understand that I am not angry, but I am Goddamned well incensed.”
April 13th, 2009
It isn’t, as Prof will no doubt rebut later, having been a “guest” of the Birmingham VA more times than I care to remember.
April 13th, 2009
I can only see the VA from the doctor side of the bed. I too dislike the dictums from on high from people who have never worked in the areas they rule.
I left the university to be a full time provider because the VA provided a better work environment- maily more time with patients. At the private clinic I had to see more and more in less time. Cant do a good job doing that. What I gained at the VA was more time per patient so I could do a better job.
Unfortunately the subspecialists (I am a general internist) do work the way we do. They are understaffed and have no incentive to operate (in fact, since they are salaried the incentive is to not operate). The VA pays very well for primary care but cant compete with private practice for subspecialists.
I challenge all veterans to write their congressmen or senators (it really does work and every VA has to respond to congressional complaints) if they see true incompetence and docs who dont care. Its unprofessional and they should be gotten rid of. I know I have been involved with trying to get rid of them.
One last note…I get more complements about how much better the VA is compared to 10-20 yrs ago from my patients probably 20 to 1 compared to complaints. I have numerous patients who have given up their private care because they think the VA does a better job than their private doc did.
April 13th, 2009
Doc S, I have done so. After decades of this nonsense, I obtained a quality lawyer and am engaged in a lawsuit against the VA to be fairly rated. I do not relish having to do so, I am forced to.
My experiences are not a fabrication, they are all too real, and I have access professionally to – as noted – thousands of Veterans who have related their less-than-ideal experiences to me over the years.
Perhaps you are the exception to the rule. If so, please co-opt your peers into obtaining employment with the VA. Because as things stand now, we Veterans, on average, receive piss-poor care and a boatload of crap for our very real medical issues.
April 13th, 2009
“I can only see the VA from the doctor side of the bed. I too dislike the dictums from on high from people who have never worked in the areas they rule.”
Precisely my point, Dr. S. I don’t doubt that we could collect endless stories of excellent care and sheer horror both in the VA and in the private sector. But I’m willing to bet you’ll find a stark difference in BOTH areas, showing that most of the horror stories are the direct or indirect result of attempting to comply with rules made by a) politicians or b) insurance company executives, *rather than by senior doctors.*
That’s why government healthcare scares me. As Lenny Bruce once said of Communism, “It’s like one huge phone company. If I get too rank with this company I can’t just go to another one, I’m stuck with a dixie cup and a string.”
April 13th, 2009
“senior doctors”…. and nurses… and EMTs…. they each see a different piece of the puzzle. Adding in a politician or a cost/benefit analyst into a situation where the cost is A LIFE does not help the machine run better.
April 13th, 2009
Ho.Ly.Cow! Another precinct heard from. And yet another teaching tool.
Dr. S—
I see that you are actually posting from the VA Hosp in Bham. You have that kind of time? Or are you taking the time away from the patients you say you have MORE time with than in private practice?
Secondly, the utter dreck of your first comment kind of goes a long way TOWARDS making my point, rather than the other way around. So much for a professional and caring attitude.
To quote your own words—”Furthermore, for any of you guys, if care is so bad….leave. Go elsewhere. I cant stand seeing patients like you with such a chip on your shoulder.” —
I’m sure that kind of talk goes over real well with the patients that you see every day. I can hear it now, “Well sarge, your knee is blown and all I can do is give you a sugar pill or drug so strong that you won’t be able to work and may cause your kidneys to fall out. If you don’t like it, you can go fuck yourself but don’t complain about the care here cuz I ain’t listenin’!” You might fancy up the language a bit, but that is ABSOLUTELY the message you sent in your first comment.
While sitting in the actual VA hospital, no less.
Your second comment comes off as trying to ameliorate the effects of the first, as if you realized just how colossally rude and unprofessional you had been the first time you wrote in. Or did you want to show off your scathing repartee to someone in the office who then looked at you like you were an asshole and convinced you to send the second one. It was an attempt to be conciliatory without ever actually apologizing, an urging of us vets to stand up for ourselves and demand better treatment (which many of us have been doing for years), and a sop to history saying “it is all better now, please forget the last ten, twenty, thirty, etc. years, pleeeeze.”
Overall, I think you win the Tool of the Day award. You have not only proved my exact point, you have demonstrated the utmost in UN-professionalism to do so. For that, I thank you.
April 13th, 2009
[...] at I am Simon Jester has another example we can look at–the Veteran’s Administration health care system: The VA had no agenda here. They weren’t deliberately trying to make my life miserable. They [...]
April 14th, 2009
I think all of you have gone a bit over the top.
You will find good and bad in all sectors of Health Care. I’ve had great civilian docs and great VA docs…and I’ve had bad ones in both areas. Luckily, I’m happy with what I’ve got at the moment – which oddly enough is a strange little clinic that handles both – a civilian doc that contracts with the VA to do some outpatient care in a remote location.
For the guy suing the VA – go for it. Unfortunately, that is par fo the course these days. No one knows what the underlying problem is, but far too many vets get denied care and are forced to sue. Don’t feel bad about it. The court will decide if you are getting a bum rap or not. If you get the rating, you deserved it. If you don’t, well, you wasted your money.
I’ve never experienced the B’ham VA, so I don’t know what it is like. I’ve been to DC, two in Virginia and one in MD. One of the Virginia facilities was pretty run-down and the doctors weren’t so great. All the rest were great. The care has improved quite a bit over the last 10 or so years. It seems to be easier to get an appointment. Tests still take forever unless it is an emergency test, but not so much that I died…obviously.
I do think there are a few shoulder chips floating around this board. It seems like there are stories from both ends of the spectrum – all of which appear to be outside of the ordinary, run of the mill kind, both good and bad. You can’t make judgements on the extreme edges of an issue. However, I agree with the overall point of the article.
Nationalized healthcare is a really, really bad idea. The VA system is about as good as it can get – and there is a lot of room for improvement there. The whole nation wouldn’t be able to get seen properly in that type of system. There would be too many horror stories, too much room for corruption and too little incentive to give the needed care, as opposed to the minimum required to get a good evaluation rating.
With regards the Veteran being interviewed, this is a defensive move by the VA. They get hammered constantly for privacy violations. The healthcare side never had a big problem…not yet anyway. The benefits and cemetary parts of the VA have both had issues though, so the upper management punishes everyone. But, the healthcare side would be in huge trouble if they breached privacy. That’s why they take such a paternal view of patients. That and the fact that a lot of the vets are mentally disturbed in some way – by drugs, pain, medical condition or mental condition. It seems prudent to get a Veteran’s permission before a reporter starts bugging them for the next “scoop.”
Everyone should just relax, see that other points of experience-based view are valid and accept that different people will react differently to differing experiences.