Don’t Screw Up
Posted by Hazel Stone | Filed under Liberating Liberty
For those of you who can’t stand to watch (or like me, are just busy working) SCOTUSblog has the details on today’s Supremes’ hearing on District of Columbia vs. Heller. From their latest rundown:
In an argument that ran 23 minutes beyond the allotted time, Justice Anthony M. Kennedy emerged as a fervent defender of the right of domestic self-defense. At one key point, he suggested that the one Supreme Court precedent that at least hints that gun rights are tied to military not private needs — the 1939 decision in U.S. v. Miller — “may be deficient” in that respect. “Why does any of that have any real relevance to the situation that faces the homeowner today?” Kennedy asked rhetorically.
With Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., and Justices Samuel A. Alito, Jr., and Antonin Scalia leaving little doubt that they favor an individual rights interpretation of the Amendment (and with Justice Clarence Thomas, though silent on Tuesday, having intimated earlier that he may well be sympathetic to that view), Kennedy’s inclinations might make him — once more — the holder of the deciding vote.
Good news, yes. It’s this I don’t understand:
There also remained a chance, it appeared, that Justice Stephen G. Breyer, one of the Court’s moderates, would be willing to support an individual right to have a gun — provided that a ruling left considerable room for government regulation of weapons, particularly in urban areas with high crime rates.
Kindly explain to me the logic of this. The issue in these high crime areas is not legitimate gun owners GIVING their weapons to the bad guys, nor is it really having them stolen by same. The bad guys get their hands on guns no matter what laws/regulations are in place, we know this. So how does crippling the ability of the law-abiding populace to defend their homes and lives against said bad guys make any sense at all? If some thug is booting down my front door, I want my choice of responses, be it a mare’s leg or a bloody AR-15.
I am TENSE about this, people.
UPDATE – In the comments, Craig wants some advice on a weapon of choice for a small-framed guy. Have at thee.
Tags: 2nd amendment, guns are good
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March 18th, 2008
Enjoy the site and I need some help.
I would like to buy a gun for self defense. I grew up a hunter and and have plenty of shooting experience. I bought a 9mm years ago but I never really felt it fit me well. I’m a small guy, 5-4 and about 135lbs and the 9 just felt a little large in my hands. My wife nagged me into selling it as are son started getting past toddler age. I gave in because I didnt like it that much and at the time we lived in a very safe area, heck most of us left our doors unlocked then. Well, not anymore.
Anyway, I was hoping ya’ll might be kind enough to make some suggestions as to what might be appropriate. I want stopping power that I can handle. I plan to get a conceal/carry so size is a concern there as well.
Thanks much,
Craig
Hattiesburg, MS
March 18th, 2008
Personally, I would recommend a .38 revolver with hollow points. But everyone has their own favorite and I’m sure they’ll be along directly to enlighten you.
I am not a small woman by any means but the boxier-framed semi-autos are just too large for my hand, so I recently acquired a Walther PPK/S. Shooting report on that is here. That might be an option for you, too.
March 18th, 2008
Shot placement is much more important than calibre.
Find a weapon that fits you, and I agree with Hazel that a double stack magazine weapon may be too much for your hand size.
Once you have selected a weapon, practice, practice, practice and then practice some more. To the point that your shooting is instinctive, muscle memory does not desert you when you are loaded up with adrenaline.
Good luck in your search. Try the local gun club for specific recommendations.
March 18th, 2008
Well, for you house, you need a shotgun. 20 gauge is fine if you can’t handle the recoil of a 12 gauge, just get some low recoil 00 buckshot. Nothing better for the home.
For personal carry, I simply cannot recommend anything less than a 380 auto. The 9mm is a fine cartridge, you may just need to find a better platform for it. Try different models until you have one that fits your hand better.
And, like said above, nothing is as important as training and practice. A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .50 AE.
March 18th, 2008
While I agree with the shotgun statement, to a degree, brownells carries a knoxx recoil reducing stock for various pump guns, both 12ga and 20ga. OTOH, there are reports that the AR-15 platform is the better choice as it has minimal recoil which means more shots on target, which is where you want them.
Pistols, careful with going too small too fast in a heavy(ish) caliber. I have fired a single stack Kahr 9mm which barked and recoiled worse than my .45. Browning hi powers are always a good choice (9mm) if that is still too big Walther p99s have pretty slim grips and replaceable inserts to slim them a bit further. Look around there are a few single stack 9mms out there. If you go with revolvers, I shy away from new S&W because of the integral internal lock. Always remember that Murphy was an optimist! However, an older Smith, taurus etc… are good choices. There are even some old wheelguns out there chambered in .45acp, not a bad choice with a 4″ barrel. Worry about concealability last and don’t go lightweight until you are very experienced. If the firearm is too light it will not be pleasant to shoot enough to be good with it. Training and practice are paramount. Personally, I like the Charter Arms weapons for concealable wheelguns, though the short barrel does give me pause as far as suggesting it, especially since I lean toward the bulldog in .44sp, but then I don’t like overpenetration, or failure to stop.
March 18th, 2008
There is a real dearth of small frame 9mm options out there. 9×19 is the poster child of the more is better crowd. Not that more isn’t sometimes better. *grin*
As a new (again) shooter, the best I can advise is finding a range that rents. Whatever they charge will seem like too much, but it is worth it. I bought a P99 without firing it and discovered it wasn’t the right choice for me. I shot a friend’s MP9 and found a great item. Both are great guns, one is just better for my anatomy. My wife doesn’t like either of them and is getting a CZ85.
There is so much personal preference in firearms other people’s suggestions simply won’t help. Sucks but there it is. Sorry.
What I can say is that revolvers are a viable option. 38spl/357mag is a proven combo. In an auto, 9mm is about the best starter chambering. You can still get it in bulk unlike 45acp and it’s so much cheaper than 380ACP, 40S&W or 357SIG you’ll be able to afford that all important practice.
Finally, worry about the concealed carry later. CCW arms add too many hurdles – too small, too light, too little capacity. You don’t want to worry about that crap while you reacquaint yourself with shooting. Find something you enjoy putting rounds through and then decide if carrying regularly is important for you.
Honestly, a 22LR pistol like a Ruger Mark III or single six is a pretty dang good option. Shoot those a bunch, you can afford a ton of 22LR, and you’ll be well on your way to understanding what does and doesn’t work for you. Besides, every house should have at least one 22 pistol.
March 18th, 2008
Ok, I appreciate all the help but I’m kind of a novice with handguns so I understand most of what your saying but not all.
I have shotguns for bird hunting and a 12ga Mossberg automatic that is sweet. Only holds four shells total but I figure if I fire that at someone in the house they’ll be deaf and blind if I don’t hit them. But I’m pretty confident I’ll hit them anyway so…
I fired a Walther .22 last weekend and I liked the feel and was pretty good with it so I’m leaning toward Hazel’s suggestion. I assume that is a single stack 9 but don’t know.
My last problem, which you can’t help me with, is I don’t have a gun club here so I think I may have to purchase without actually testing. But we’ll see.
I do have plenty of areas for practice and I’m kind of anal retentive so a good shot I aim to be. Get it? Aim to be. Ha!
OK, I’m a dork now but thanks for the advice.
Thanks Y’all.
March 18th, 2008
The PPK/S is a single stack 7 shot (8 with one in the pipe), very easy to load. My only complaint with mine is the sticky safety. And adjusting to having a hammer again after years with the Glock.
March 19th, 2008
A weapon for concealed carry and a weapon for home defense are two different animals.
I have to echo Jubal Harshaw and Robb Allen’s excellent comments.
A handgun for CCW has to fit your hand and your tolerance for recoil. Don’t get wrapped around the axle worrying about “stopping power”. Rapid, solid hits are more important. That being said, calibers smaller than .380 are not good choices for defensive handguns. The late Col. Cooper once said he would rather be armed with a hatchet than a .25 auto and I couldn’t agree more. You should have realistic expectations of what a handgun can do. Don’t overestimate the handgun and underestimate a determined bad guy.
Another point that bears repeating is that 9mm is a caliber, and there are many platforms for that caliber which can be quite different from each other. A Kahr PM9 and a Beretta 92FS are both 9x19mm handguns but are very different. Both my sister and my mother both prefer the recoil of the .45ACP to that of the 9x19mm in similar platforms. Your mileage may vary, as they say.
Also, count me as another vote that getting some defensive pistol training is paramount. Your hunting experience has little relevance to fighting. Shooting stationary paper targets is basic marksmanship training; it is only one step in learning to fight in close quarters.
Shotguns for good for home defense, and if you are a hunter, you might already own at least one. You can certainly make that work. However, I think an AR or AK has a lot of advantages over the shotgun, not the least of which are less recoil and handier size/weight/length of pull (and therefore your wife will also be able to fire it more easily. Even if she is not a big fan, she should know how to use your firearms).
Good luck and stay safe.
WT
March 19th, 2008
I’m a fan of revolvers; you can leave them under the bed cavorting with dust bunnies for thirty years, and out they come, ready to do business. A .357 is nice; then you can practice with .38 ammo.
But don’t get too wadded up about training. Just remember: squeeze the thing and the stuff comes out the front.
March 19th, 2008
Thanks Weaz, it was getting testosterone-y in here.
March 19th, 2008
Smith & Wesson: the original point-and-click interface.
March 19th, 2008
Thanks all. Especially you Weasel, I like advice in laymans terms.
March 19th, 2008
The Bersa Thunder .380 was second choice to my Springfield Armory XD .40S&W. As a 5’4″ female I have rather small hands and had the same concerns about grip size. Bersa’s concealed carry pistol model BSTHUN380NKLCC is an awesome value and the Bersas come highly recommended at most forums. Ableammo.com has a good selection to browse through. Renting is your best bet if you can find a good selection to rent – our local range is sadly lacking.
March 23rd, 2008
I read the transcript of the Heller arguments and it looks like we’ll get a 5-4, maybe even 6-3 ruling that finds 2A is an individual right, and lets the lower court opinion stand.
As to the question of why DC passed the ban in the first place- well, because it’s easier to take away citizens’ guns than criminals’ guns. The citizens cooperated meekly. And of course, stupid liberal logic says that if you have less guns, there will be less gun crime. OOPS.
FWIW I am waiting for my CCW permit here in CO; my carry gun will be an H&K USP .40 caliber, 14 round capacity.